Despite its relatively short history, Summer Bummer has already established itself as fertile ground for new musical collaborations. The festival seems to foster the right conditions for spontaneous encounters and creative exchange, although some projects might occasionally be proposed or initiated by the organisation. The collaboration between Hanne De Backer (g a b b r o) and Yves De Mey (Grid Ravage, Sendai, Eavesdropper) – both no strangers to Summer Bummer audiences – belongs to the spontaneous category. Both have featured prominently on the festival’s line-up over the years , and now join forces for a new venture in which De Mey’s electronics interact with De Backer’s bass clarinet. This year’s festival marks the project’s live debut.

This conversation took place in late spring, while the duo were still mapping out the contours of their collaboration, testing different approaches and exploring how to shape an interaction that felt genuinely rewarding and creatively fulfilling for both of them.

PARAMETERS

You are familiar faces at the festival, but this project is something entirely new. Yves, to put it simply, you’ve developed a software environment that enables interaction between electronics and acoustic instruments. Can you tell us a bit more about it?

Yves De Mey: The project was partly inspired by a solo concert Hanne played during an exhibition of Dennis Tyfus at De Warande in Turnhout. Around that time, I was also listening to a lot of early electronic music – music that felt raw, direct and unpolished, rather than heavily produced. In my own electronic work, I had started to miss a physical, acoustic dimension. I felt there was a disconnect between the acoustic and electronic worlds. 

Sampling could have been an answer to that, but that never really interested me. Then I started thinking about Hanne, because she plays with such a remarkable dynamic range, both in terms of pitch and volume. I became fascinated by the idea of linking parameters from her playing to parameters I know from electronic music: pitch, tempo, rhythmic processes and so on.

How do you even begin with something like that?

YDM: The first question was how to translate that idea into an actual musical practice. How do you establish those relationships? That became a long process of experimentation. You receive the sound of a saxophone or a bass clarinet and then ask yourself: which aspects of that sound are musically interesting, and which can be connected to parameters within an electronic system? Eventually I ended up working with Modalys, software developed by IRCAM in France that’s particularly good at modelling acoustic percussion instruments. I started experimenting with that. First, I asked Hanne to make some recordings and send them to me. Then I spent a lot of time listening to those recordings while gradually developing the software. At some point, something genuinely musical started to emerge. Not something metric or rigidly tied to a clock, because one thing I wanted to avoid at all costs was a system that constantly imposes timing. There was one principle I never deviated from: if no sound comes in from Hanne, no sound comes out from me. It was essential that this remained a true collaboration – an interaction rather than a one-way process. At the moment, I have around 120 parameters that I can control.

120? That’s a huge amount, no?

YDM: It is, but of course I don’t use all of them simultaneously – that would be impossible. I have to make selections constantly. It will still take some time and rehearsal to determine which combinations work best. A few months ago, we improvised together for about half an hour, and that’s exactly when what I had hoped for happened. It felt spontaneous, yet at the same time the system behaved precisely as I had imagined. It was still nowhere near where I want it to go, but it confirmed that the concept could work musically and that the project was worth pursuing. I’ve connected various virtual instruments to the system, including some exotic synthesizers and a cymbal simulator. Within that framework, I can establish all kinds of relationships. For example, the higher Hanne plays, the further apart the striking points on the virtual cymbal become, which changes the instrument’s timbre. Or I can link sequencers to her playing, so that lower pitches slow down a sequence. In that sense, I’m building an entire network of relationships and creating a complete   orchestra based on her playing. It’s kind of my personal gamelan.

I suppose it helps when the acoustic instrument is flexible and has a wide range, as is the case with the bass clarinet.

YDM: Absolutely. This would be much more difficult with a piano, for example. What fascinates me about the bass clarinet is the extraordinary range of timbres it has. To my ears, there’s something inherently raw and primitive about it. Not necessarily in the way it’s played, but in the sound itself.

Hanne, what attracted you to this project? And are you only playing bass clarinet in this context?

Hanne De Backer: For me, part of the appeal was that Yves had already done such extensive groundwork. It didn’t feel as though we were starting from scratch. At the moment, I’m only playing bass clarinet in this project, and I completely understand what Yves means when he talks about the instrument’s particular character. It has limitations, but precisely because of those limitations it also offers very specific possibilities. That’s what makes it so interesting to explore. My vocabulary on bass clarinet is more limited than on baritone saxophone, but that limitation also keeps me very focused. Further exploration will determine whether I’ll remain exclusively on clarinet or eventually expand to saxophone as well.

YDM: It can still go in many different directions. You can even use an instrument to the point where it no longer sounds recognisable. The sonic material is incredibly rich. I may have certain preferences at the moment, but ultimately, we’ll have to discover what produces the best musical result.

At the moment you’re the only one controlling the software, Yves? How much influence does Hanne have over what’s happening?

YDM: The more we rehearse and perform together, the more Hanne will develop an intuitive sense of how her playing affects the system. I don’t want to use her simply as a sound source. As I said before, it’s all about interaction. Otherwise, I could just work with recordings. Every performance should be different. The system only comes to life because of what’s happening between us in that particular moment.

Will you eventually settle on a fixed set of parameters?

YDM: It’s designed to remain flexible. I work with a controller that allows me to assign different functions, so in theory I could be switching parameters throughout the concert. But I’ve also discovered that limitation is important. Sixteen carefully chosen parameters are often more than enough. In the end, it has to be music. I’m not interested in turning the performance into a demonstration of technology.

COLLABORATION

How do you approach the collaboration on stage? For instance, will you play shorter pieces, or one continuous set?

HDB: To me that’s still very much an open question. Right now, I’m mainly interested in exploring the sonic world the system generates. Those 120 parameters may sound abstract, but behind them lies a very clear musical idea. What I’m trying to understand is what that means for my own playing. Perhaps it’ll lead to very strict choices and limitations, perhaps not. What fascinates me is the possibility of creating tension between the system’s internal logic – something almost mechanical – and something much more free that exists alongside it. That’s really the research we still have ahead of us this summer.

YDM: I do think it’s useful to have a few anchor points. I can prepare different sound configurations beforehand, knowing that one setup lends itself to a quieter passage while another one works better for something much more energetic. That way I don’t have to make technical decisions all the time while we’re performing. The controller itself offers an enormous number of possibilities – sliders, switches, different layers – so it’s helpful to think in advance about which functions I’m likely to need at particular moments. It leaves more room to actually listen and respond. Otherwise, there’s a risk that everything becomes too open-ended. Then again, we’ve only played together a handful of times, so a lot of this still needs to reveal itself. One thing I do know is that the concert won’t be improvised from start to finish without any preparation.

Yves, you’ve collaborated with other musicians before, most notably in Grid Ravage with cellist Gino Coomans and drummer Louis Evrard. A few years ago, you also performed at Rataplan with Strange Meeting, a collective of young improvisers. Is this project in any way comparable?

YDM: Not really. If anything, that concert taught me that performing in a loose setting like that isn’t where I feel most comfortable. I realised I need a certain clarity in the interaction, which was missing at that particular concert.

Hanne, we’ve seen you in countless different ensembles over the years, but I can only think of one performance I witnessed where electronics played a more or less central role: a concert at De Singer with drummer Raf Vertessen and Raphael Malfliet improvising on laptop.

HDB: I remember that concert very well. But what comes to mind first is a performance I did last year with bassist Beate Wiesinger. She invited me to a festival in Austria, where we played as a duo through an immersive sound system controlled by sound artist Rojin Sharafi. Looking back, that was probably the closest I’ve come to what Yves and I are doing now. Playing alongside electronics has never really been a major part of my practice. At the same time, a lot of my research has always revolved around finding ways of sounding electronic – or exploring the point where acoustic and electronic sound become difficult to distinguish. That’s why I was naturally drawn to artists working in that area, such as Agnes Hvizdalek (improvising musician who mainly works with her voice, and can be heard on g a b b r o’s album ‘Granular’, jc).

YDM: I find that idea of sounding electronic through purely acoustic means quite interesting. When we first played together, I had the feeling that the electronic sounds began to influence the way Hanne responded, which in turn affected my own decisions. Suddenly a feedback loop emerged between us. Those are exactly the kinds of moments I want to explore further. At the same time, restraint can be just as powerful. Sometimes simply reducing the volume changes the whole experience. It starts to become unclear what you’re actually hearing. Is it the instrument? Is it the room?

Those are often the magical moments for an audience – when you genuinely can’t tell where a sound is coming from.

YDM: Exactly. One of the strongest examples I’ve experienced recently was Camille Émaille’s performance at Summer Bummer last year. It wasn’t necessarily quiet – far from it – but it was extraordinary.

SOFTWARE

What was missing from the existing software? Why did you feel the need to build your own system?

YDM: I could probably have built something similar using existing software, but those environments are packed with features I simply don’t need. They get in the way of what matters most to me: playability. For this project I’m working in Max/MSP, a visual programming environment where you connect objects much like patching hardware with cables. Visually, it looks a bit like an alien mood board.

HDB: Technology has never been something that immediately draws me in. From the beginning, it was important for me that I could really feel an interaction rather than simply perform alongside a machine. The last time Yves and I played together, I really felt that dialogue happening. Recently I worked with an installation by the Icelandic artist Hans Thordur: a large rotating brush, almost like something from a car wash, that supposedly came to life through interaction with the performer. Visually it was fascinating, but technically it mainly responded to volume. If I stopped playing, the brush just kept turning… At one point I started shouting out of frustration.

YDM: That’s exactly what won’t happen here. Hanne can bring the whole system to a standstill simply by not playing. Everything depends on her input. As long as she generates sound, the system responds. No input means no output. What also interests me is that Hanne’s playing doesn’t just trigger sounds, it shapes my own decisions about timbre and instrumentation. Every virtual instrument demands a different musical mindset. That allows us to move continuously between different sonic worlds, so the music never settles into something fixed or mechanical. It’s constantly evolving.

Have you already thought about how you’ll present the project live at the festival?

YDM: We’re still discussing that. Since we’re not performing on the main stage, we’re considering playing in front of the small stage instead, with the audience surrounding us, provided it’s technically and acoustically possible. That way people can see what’s happening: how I’m manipulating parameters, how the interaction unfolds. I think it would make the electronic aspect feel much less abstract. Besides, Hanne and I are both fairly tall. If we stand on stage, people might end up with sore necks from staring at the Twin Towers. (laughs)

Yves, a few months ago you announced that you were stepping away from solo releases and solo performances. Yet here you are again. What changed?

YDM: Well, nothing is forever – not even quitting. (laughs) I played a concert in Hamburg in June, and I’ve quietly started composing and recording again. During my break I spent a lot of time at the piano, which turned out to be incredibly valuable. Taking some distance gave me space in every sense, including the mental space to fully immerse myself in this project.

How did the two of you actually meet?

YDM: I think it must have been at one of the Summer Bummer editions. Antwerp is a village in many ways, and the music scene is incredibly open and welcoming. If you’re active in it, sooner or later you’re bound to cross paths. 

SUMMER BUMMER

You’ve both performed at Summer Bummer several times before. Yves as a solo artist and with Grid Ravage, Hanne in numerous different constellations alongside musicians including Signe Emmeluth, Martin Küchen, Angel Bat Dawid, Paal Nilssen-Love, Terrie Hessels, Farida Amadou and Audrey Lauro. What does Summer Bummer represent for you today?

YDM: I’ve learned an enormous amount about music simply by attending the festival. It introduced me to music I would never have encountered otherwise. Some of it even irritated me at first, but that’s part of the experience. The festival played a huge role in sparking my interest in free improvised music. Just as importantly, it’s a place where people meet. Musicians from different countries and different scenes come together in a very relaxed atmosphere, and those encounters often lead to new collaborations. That’s one of the festival’s greatest strengths.

HDB: I completely recognise that. The first things that come to mind are specific musical memories. One of them is the concert I played during the Covid period with Terrie Hessels, Signe Emmeluth and Raf Vertessen, which I still consider one of the highlights of my career. Summer Bummer is also where I first met Signe. Looking back, it’s almost unbelievable, considering how much we’ve played together since then and how many places we’ve travelled together. My first duo performance with Paal Nilssen-Love also happened at the festival and that marked the beginning of many collaborations and a lasting friendship. I met Farida Amadou at Summer Bummer as well. I still vividly remember her concert with Steve Noble and Peter Brötzmann, as well as the duo by Fred Van Hove and Brötzmann, and Anna Högberg Attack. Ironically, whenever I’m performing myself, I rarely get to see many of the other concerts.

YDM: I already mentioned Camille Émaille earlier, but another unforgettable performance was the duo of Tashi Dorji and Susie Ibarra a couple of years ago.

Have you had a chance to look at this year’s programme yet?

HDB: I’m really looking forward to seeing Das B with Mazen Kerbaj, and Integral with Christine Abdelnour. Christine remains a huge source of inspiration for me. I’m also very curious about DaughterDaughter, and Rodrigo Amado’s trio with Joëlle Léandre and Gerald Cleaver.

YDM: I rarely study the programme in advance. I enjoy discovering things once I’m there. But I do know Julien Desprez is playing, and I never miss an opportunity to hear him. Claire Gapenne will be there as well. They also have a wonderful duo together – Julien Claire. Julien’s unmistakable guitar playing combined with a heavy drum machine is something I love. This time he’ll be performing with Integral, a different project with Christine Abdelnour and Lukas König, which I’m really looking forward to. Das B is definitely on my list too. Mike Majkowski is part of that group, and I’m a big fan of Lotto, one of his other projects. Marta Warelis is another musician I never tire of hearing. As an aspiring pianist myself, all I can do is admire her extraordinary virtuosity.

Hanne De Backer & Yves De Mey interviewed for Head to Head / Summer Bummer 2026 by Joachim Ceulemans
© Sound in Motion vzw